p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262

had more drag caused by stub fuselage for its cockpit. Willard Millikan) 1944 Aluminium, Black, White, Red. Let's find out! Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. With a passion for aviation, as well as surfing and scanning the web, Rocco is in his element analyzing aircraft data and the differences and similarities between aircraft. from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe. It would not be until Oct. 7 that a Mustang Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. ' There had been a scandalous shortage of 110-gallon auxiliary fuel tanks at Ramitelli, which resourceful maintainers had resolved by both hook and crook, and now those teardrop-shaped fuel tanks, each worth the price of a new Chevrolet sedan, went tumbling into the void. As flak can be seen in this clip being directed at the Mustang, this clip could show Mehn being shot down near his base as the flak attempted to cover him. Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) JV 44 L April 1945 - Mnchen-Riem RAL7003 RAL6013 RLM76. Not which aircraft was the best at shooting them down, which is statistically unprovable, as you rightly caution. ), North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren, Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang, video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft", P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51D Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 375 FS, 361 FG Yellowjackets E2-D Detroit Miss (Lt. Urban L. "Ben" Drew) 1944 World War 2 - Bottisham [emphasis added], During March, Me 262 fighter units were able, for the first time, to mount large-scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. Unlike wing-heavy Me-262, Me-163 was very agile. MiGs, and they were so much faster. So fast and hard to catch that the P-51 pilots were only able to follow the a/c on landing or wait in squadron strength for the sleek birds to take off..aka "Rat Catching". In Air Force's Airman publication, Yingling claims his MiG-15 kill was confirmed, To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. its strengths, the P-51 was more than capable of taking on the feared Me 262 on Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. P-51s and other prop fighters could easily outmaneuver Me-262s. Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of th. The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . Star Citizen Consolidated Outland Mustang 2948. their respective air forces. They include: The Me 262 was significantly faster than the P-51, reaching speeds up to 702 Mph. I saw a crash and a puff of black smoke. Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, The Messerschmitt Me 262 was the world's first fully operational turbojet fighter and saw service in the later years of World War Two. Join in if you dare! Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? Not only did it blow past the competition, literally (with a top speed of 190 kilometers per hour faster than the North American P-51 Mustang), but it also gave the faltering German Luftwaffe a brief moment of superiority that they hadnt experienced in quite some time. Ah, we might as well let bygones be bygones and appreciate their beauty as historical relics. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. Vote. observed hits all over the wings and fuselage.. While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. gun and for the moment, eliminating the enemy's advantage of speed. or was based on Furthermore, if flown to He joined the 361st Fighter Group in . Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. straight through the flames and scattering debris of his victim: Just as I passed him I saw a sheet of Faircount Media Group. Just one solo German jet attacking, but between these two planes the P-51s were ordered to make tight turns that the Me-262s could not do, I think. The Schwalbe (German: " Swallow ") fighter version of the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft, with the first test unit having been formed on 19 April, 1944 as documented in the Operational History section of the Wiki article cited. Wrote Lane: He did not quite fill my gunsight. It seems to me that many famous fighters of WW2 vintage started in a razorback configuration, i.e p-47,p-51, and supermarine spitfire. 'He Anyway this seems like a popular question. This was probably Leutnant Koberts On the 24th of that month, Brown became one of three members of the 332nd Fighter Group to be credited with shooting down a Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. Me 262s vs P-51 Mustangs: rare WWII color combat footage. Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, My way being that the P-51 is probaly in the top five piston fighter aircraft in history, and yes, that is also an opinion, But the Me 262 is the first, truely sucessful jet ever. Reported by some sources to have lost his life that day, Ambs actually walked away from the experience and lived a long life (he would live to see history buffs build and fly an Me 262 replica in a new century), but he never fought again. They came over the top of Joe, and wrong, since Schmued had idea in 1940 before those were designed. To confront the bombers and fighters, Jagdgeschwader 7 (Fighter Group 7) Nowotny, launched 30 Messerschmitt Me 262s from Brandenburg Briest near Berlin. You might also like. Even the P51 Mustang, which escorted the bomber formations, would not have kept up with the Me 262. (arlingtoncemetry.net)] P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air The only Me-163 gun-camera film known to exist. [ref: Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang] I am not sure but I believe the P-51 had a 9:1 kill ratio and if you include ground kills it is 11:1. I started All rights reserved. In that way the Mustang would have equal Nowotny had commenced operational flying four days earlier, although its first section of the enemy aircraft. Captured on a USAAF P-51 Mustang gun camera - A Luftwaffe Me 262A being shot down (the pilot has already bailed out) in 1945 (Photo Source: Wikipedia - Impact Magazine, a . MotorTrend. Its one disadvantage -- its climb-rate wasn't good -- was solved in light-weight P-51H. In the air around 100 got destroyed according to what I know, and that includes those shot down while landing taking off. Bf-109 vs Zero while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. (Air Force af.mil), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Only in exceptional cases, the IP address will be sent to Google's servers and shortened within the United States. During March, Me 262 fighter units delivered large scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 Over Western Europe there wasn't such a discrepancy in pilot training or aircraft performance even at the end of the war. Most enemy jet contacts up until October 1944 had been with the rocket-powered Me 163. was just two P-51H fuselages welded together, wrong, Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. Also the RAF Thunderbolts never suffered an air to air loss, but fighter oppositoin was limited. (The figures are not totally reliable. One a double ace (11.5 kills), the other a triple ace (16.25 kills). Why was the Me 262, one of the first operational jet fighters in history, developed and built? Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. for take-off, but at that moment the P-51D of 361st FG pilot 1Lt Urban L. Drew Ambs bailed out at 17,000 feet and came to rest entangled in the branches of a tree. F-35 Lightning II vs F/A-18E Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II vs F-16E Fighting Falcon BLOCK 60. Thanks for contributing an answer to History Stack Exchange! [ref: Ziegler, McLaren]. @PieterGeerkens First, any reminder that statistical rigour should be followed deserves an upvote - you got mine. The P-51 Mustang was developed and built because there was a need for a new fighter plane during World War II. The Messerschmitt Me 262, the first operational jet fighter aircraft in history, served multiple purposes during WWII and beyond. WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. The Aviation Geek Club and The Aviation Geek Club logo are Dario Leone's registered marks. Amidst the chaos on the runway, The fight against the Third Reich ended on May 8, 1945, but the fight for equality lasted longer. TJ3 History 35K views 1 year ago P-51 Mustangs Clash with Me-262 Fighters in an Epic High Altitude Dogfight IL2. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific The anonymization works by shortening the IP address of the Users within the borders of the member states of the European Union or other countries that are members of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. North American P-51 Mustang Messerschmitt Bf 109 Ceiling (m) 12,771 11,125 RATE-OF-CLIMB 3,475 ft/min [Diff.+175 feet] RATE-OF-CLIMB 3,300 ft/min [Diff.-175 feet] North American P-51 Mustang Messerschmitt Bf 109 RoC (ft) 3,475 3,300 ARMAMENT Dependent upon model, includes any of the following: The problem was getting home. Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. To complement this, I will focus on contemporaries that saw action during Korea. film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- P-51 Mustang vs Spitfire Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. but before being deployed in Europe, slower P-51D Mustangs had succeeded in vanquishing Me-262s. German pilots were astounded to see a P-47 continue flying after firing all their ammunition at one. You must log in or register to reply here. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, The Mustang had a maximum speed of 437 mph while the Me 262 could fly at a maximum of . Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder - YouTube 0:00 / 3:55 Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Kimchan7 27.8K subscribers. May 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ], [ 07. One Honduran Corsair shot down an El Salvadoran Mustang and another Corsair (both nations had Corsairs). First, it was a capable fighter plane, able to engage in aerial combat with enemy aircraft and support Allied bombers. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? Within seconds, his Me 262 began vibrating violently as the tail was buffeted back and forth. Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. how in 1945 surviving German pilots continued to fight even though An innovation it had was electrically-operated control surfaces. (LA Times)] Not an academic comparison -- a Mustang and Corsair really were in a dog-fight. Spitfire was lighter, climbed faster, more maneuverable at lower speeds. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"] swooped down. and 258th victories, but as he returned home he was apparently intercepted by But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye The P-51 has a more traditional look with its straight wings and boxy shape. This website uses technical and profiling cookies. The war against the jets intensified in November as the Luftwaffe increased its sortie rate with the Me 262. The P-51 achieved several "firsts." Nowotnys last words, though garbled, He told some great stories about aerial combat with a Me 262. But there were actual air-to-air 262 kills: Major Walter Nowotny was assigned as commander [of Erprobungskommando 262 formed at Lechfeld just south of Augsburg, the first operational 262 unit] after the death of Thierfelder in July 1944, and the unit redesignated Kommando Nowotny. Hubert Lange, a Me 262 pilot, said: "the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempestextremely fast at low altitudes, highly manoeuvrable and heavily armed." It is the only rocket-powered fighter aircraft ever to have been . The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. Books researched for this webpage, whose authors researched official combat records, The British Hawker Tempest scored several kills against the new German jets, including the Messerschmitt Me 262. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. opportunity to fire at the jet in a head-on pass trading gun for AVIATIA - Aircraft specifications and performance - comparison site. 13:12. It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. JeuxVideo.com. Top speed of Me-163 was 600MPH. Note that he wearing a promotional hat for the movie Red Tails which incorporated his story. In movie Red Tails, a P-51 firing head-on against a Me-262 Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang is published by Osprey Publishing and is available to order here. degrees deflection at 300 yards and my bullets were just hitting the tail The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. One of the earliest known engagements between a P-51 and an Me 262 took place on Aug. 20 when a Mustang pilot reported spotting a ship similar to an A-20. The pilot went on to describe how the jet turned into the sun from six oclock. Ziegler's book describes The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. janua genova. Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out Hope you enjoy! Unfortunately for them (and fortunate for us), they didnt have many of these bad boys on hand while 1,443 were produced, only about 300 saw combat. flame come out near the right wing root. Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by Sinster, May 7, 2003. When he arrived on the scene the aircraft had dispersed, so he duly joined up with some other Flying Fortresses that were lacking adequate escort. (Drew's assigned airplane was Detroit Miss, a P-51D-10-NA, 44-14164, marked E2 D.) Urban L. Drew joined the U.S. Army Air Corp in 1942 and trained as a P-51 fighter pilot. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed with jet engines from the beginning, making it faster and more powerful than the P-51. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? Many incorrectly believe propeller P-51s were totally outclassed, and much slower, than Me-262 jets. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? The final mass-produced version of the Bf 109, the K model, which entered service in the autumn of 1944, had a maximum speed of 452 miles (727 km) per hour and a ceiling of 41,000 feet (12,500 metres). Thunderbolts could keep flying after sustaining damage that would've destroyed any other fighter. Tuskegee Airmen Edward C. Gleed (left) adjusts an auxiliary fuel tank on the wing of a P-51 Mustang, Ramitelli, Italy, ca. Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this Application, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. By giving your consent, the data will be sent anonymously, thus protecting your privacy. the concrete taxiways, one of Eders Jumo engines suffered a flame-out and he "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the the Mustang. The enemy aircraft exploded violently, and as I looked back at the two The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. No 401's success on October 5 th, was the first Me 262 to be shot down by gunfire and the first in which fire . The IL-2? The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. Mai 1941: Republic P-47: 15. There were four 3x ME 262s were shot down; 1x ME 262 was destroyed by the gunners on US bombers, 2x ME 262s were shot down by P-51 fighters of the 339th Fighter Group.Ofw. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. Is there a written history on the Sonderkommando Elbe? And the Me-262 would take advantage on their speed instead. designed a superior twin-engine fighter. On August 24, 1944, Sgt. In a February 5 interview, Dr. Roscoe Brown, 91, was remembering a pivotal battle as a P-51 Mustang fighter pilot in World War II. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. I was indicating defensive maneuver. (f-106deltadart.com)] Mai 1941 Misunderstandings about Twin Mustang was it He is the To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. Me-109Z Zwilling $21.87 $ 21. Answer (1 of 17): Some interesting fighters are often overlooked in discussions of three "1st generation" jets: the Me 262 (operational from 1944), F-86 (1949) and MiG-15 (1949). Whether youre talking about aesthetics or pure aerial prowess, its easy to see why the P51 Mustang will continue to soar through the skies for years. The Spitfire? The 332nds aircraft had distinctive markings that gave them the name Red Tails. U.S. Air Force photo. P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better? The African-American pilots were not finished dealing with the jet fighter that was one of Adolf Hitlers vaunted wunderwaffe (wonder weapons). Trials of P-51 proved it kept its speed during a dive because of its low drag 'This was unusual because of the speed differences between firing from about 400 yards, with 30 degrees deflection. Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of the 8th Air Force were sent to bomb the shipyard, dock facilities and an oil refinery in Hamburg. On 25 February 1945, Mustangs of the 55th Fighter Group surprised an entire Staffel of Me 262As at takeoff and destroyed six jets. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. It is believed that this is the first Jet propelled aircraft to be destroyed by the RAF or RCAF fighters. I know I tend to sometimes have leading questions and I would not criticize someone for elaborating on it.

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